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That I wont say yes to. Martha Beck: But what Martha didnt know is that I was also working with her because I have a superpower about being the ultimate teachers pet. Exactly. Being gay when we were growing or when I was growing up, it was so weird that they wouldnt even put it on. I was really jealous at the beginning because Karen and Marty had been together for so long and they had so many patterns about how they would just check in with each other on the phone and everything. It can feel like exhaustion. And wed sit down with our coffee in front of the fire. And people told us, your child They told me your children will hate you forever for this. I dont think their brains are capable at this point in being able to comprehend how they affect others. So how does the culture encourage this sort of relationship playing out? Well talk about anybody who has really tried to excavate themselves. And so then over time we sort of edged towards what was actually happening, because the one thing about Martha and Karen is anyone who knows them, knew them, that that is not ever going to break up. Its what he likes. The trigger for me in this is that I have two spiders in my house my adopted teenagers. And the non-binary people that I know are amazing. In the beginning, you were like, I wanted anything else other than this thing to be true.. There you go. I think thats one of the optional things. Like going out to that thing or being among humans or something gross like that. Then her mother says, Oh your father and I never felt the need for that.. stung by the hypocrisy of martha's homosexual lifestyle in light of her previous characteri And to me, rediscovering the feeling of a village around the fire, we have a little village in our house and we could not do with one person less, it would just be so much sadder. Rowan Mangan: Is that how you describe? And I dont know how other people experience it. Rowan Mangan: In this chapter, I discuss case-studies that have used animal-cognition principles in conservation. For an addict its when you realize that all the control efforts youre trying to use, I mean, sorry for a codependent, its learning that you cant control other people, no matter how hard you try. What is Polyamory and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. And if youre a Bewildered fan, wed love for you to consider giving us a little rate-and-review love on your favorite podcast player. Rowan Mangan: I like what Rowan said earlier. And then this is what her mother says. And that was non-Mormon. And thats what we were playing out, to my friend, we were like, Well, we were just complimenting you by assuming you were codependent.. So breaking a cultural rule is not bad. Then what we are trying to figure out. But its basically a sense of being entitled to be served by codependent people. I would argue that there is a net that the fly gets caught in, initially. Martha Beck: One of my kids once said to me, Gosh, Mom, it must be great to make a living extending metaphors. And I was like, It is. Martha Beck: Rowan Mangan: Hi, my name is Bev. Yeah. Go back. Its so good to see your faces. You can follow us to get updates, hear funny snippets and outtakes, and chat with other fans of the show. She holds three Harvard degrees in social science, and Oprah Winfrey has called her "one of the smartest women I know." Her newest book, The Way of Integrity: Finding the Path to Your True Self, was an instant New York Times Best Seller. And on this radio program, people would send in stories of the mother or wife in their family who is so depleted by constant care taking, she goes to all the soup kitchens and makes soup all day long, and then she comes home and she makes soup for us. So its not going to happen. But two people can have the same name. I wish I could play along.. This can look weird but it feels like total freedom. Theyre pretty cool. Martha Beck: So it's time I learned um, where it is I stand, exactly. Rowan Mangan she/her. What is Polyamory - and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. And everybody has to do tons of psychological pre-work so that I know whom to sick the lions on. and you dont know which it is until you start until you stop over helping. A Nonsense Relationship Boys' Love High school teacher Han YoungJin has his heartbroken by his long time friend and unrequited love. What is Polyamory and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. Thats how bad they were about it. Please forgive any typographical or grammatical errors. So that everything that feels natural to them is normal, and in every way, and they want to do accounting or I dont know good examples but like And then it must be so hard to understand people. Shes just wonderful. And I thought they were going to get together. Our impact in communities across Australia comes down to the amazing support of over 3,000 dedicated volunteers, who in the last year donated over 78,000 hours of their precious time. Thats a weird bit of language. Ro offers us the concept of a Wild INventurean adventure we dream up from within, something thrilling and bold that is also uniquely our own. Oh, but isnt that a beautiful way. What I try to do, is stop it before I kill anyone. We were living in California and we would get up in the morning every day one winter. Because thats a good way to think about it is that you assume everyone else is as needy and unable to communicate as a newborn baby, so you have to read their minds, guess their needs, give them what they want before they even know they want it, and always keep them happy. Like I was very lucky and that I grew up in a very progressive sort of family and city. You can. Its crazy. So this, oh, I have to start over. Plus Karens a morning lark and were both night owls, so we got the whole shift covered. And so, I think like, because Marty and I work together all the time. Martha, to date, has offered no evidence and proved nothing. She said a single sentence that changed our lives: All the two of you ever have to do is love each other out loud.We are so honored that these two remarkable women have come to this space to love each other, and Karen, out loud.Listen to We Can Do Hard Things wherever you listen to podcasts. What is Polyamory - and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. Martha and Ro are back with another BeWild Files episode of Bewildered to discuss things that YOU, their listeners, are trying to figure out. She also runs the Wild Inventures newsletter and community on Substack. And thats true of race as well as gender. Theres a lot of fear there too. The second-hand truth really is stranger than fiction. So then there was like, Okay, youre exactly like straight people. Yeah. It would be like a two legged stool, that just does not work. How Martha felt - after years of marriage to. Shes on Facebook, The Martha Beck, and shes on Twitter, marthabeck. I did. For me, I was mostly dating guys when we got together. How Martha felt after years of marriage to Karen when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. IG: @rowan_mangan Its very spiritual. And Oprah Winfrey has called her one of the smartest women I know. And if theyre young to me, Im like, that is, that is a person that is really trying to not just figure out themselves, but the world and seeing all of these bullshit barriers that were all told and made to live within. Ooh. Like thats part of their sense of themselves in the world. Yeah. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy 3. How Martha felt - after years of marriage to Karen - when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. The culture says its got to be the myth of courtly love ever since, not Courtney love, courtly love. Youre dead wrong. Its not easy. Shes getting on. Was I climbing up on my life coaching pedestal again? Martha Beck: Martha Beck: Like, thats a really great point that its an ecosystem of love. If people come and explain to me where Im entitled and how Im assuming my right to get things from them, Im like, Oh my God, Im so sorry. And I changed my behavior. If there could be a future focus at some point on codependency. The book, which was published last spring, was a New York Times bestseller and the first offering under Maria Shriver's book imprint, The Open Field/Viking. And they treat me like Im a second class citizen. And the guy looked at her and he goes, But sister, you are a second class citizen. And so she was supposed to go home. And were like, How do people do this with two? Oh my God. Its deeper than that Glennon. So we read our little passage and we started talking about it and I was trying to include my friend and be like, So do you find that in your codependency? And my friend was a little bit offended and she said-. And theres been articles in the New York Times about throuples and theyve even said I remember one of them even said, obviously, everyone just wants to know how the sex works. Like there was a little bit of judgment in it and whenever Im being judgemental, I always think theres something I dont understand. This episode is all about codependencysacrificing your own needs for those of someone elsebehavior that can lead to exhaustion, resentment, even illness. But Ive been doing self-help thing, my whole career. Martha Beck: Yes. So lets just get straight to a good working definition of codependency. Because I always feel better after we talk. And the fly is going, Thats so interesting, because I do not.. And then Im just going to become friends with her and be part of her life. So Im curious about, this is obviously a psychological phenomenon, but theres also culture at play in encouraging that kind of behavior. Martha Beck: Martha Beck: welcome! I was making a salad and looking at the TV and the man said, The mother bear will not do things for her cubs that they have learned to do for themselves, for this would make them ill equipped to survive in the wild. And I was like, Wait, wait. And I looked at these three very competent human beings whom I was serving dinner. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy, Learn more about your ad choices. Photo by Rowan Mangan . And I think thats the difference is, yeah, I tend to over help or over care take. Martha Beck: TW: @rowanmangan And then the last thing is youll start to feel, you will deny this, but youll begin to feel resentful. And its just so beautiful to hear you say we are abnormal and very, very happy. She doesnt want a dilly dally. Sign up below to receive information about the upcoming Wayfinder Master Coach Training. Yeah. 4. And this is another episode of Bewildered, the podcast for people trying to figure it out. And we come back from this silent thing where weve been seeing like right up close to lions and elephants and rhinoceros and things, and Row is crying. But then a friend of mine came from Australia and we were just like, So, this is the part of the day where we sit down and talk about our codependency., Rowan Mangan: Martha has claimed a lot of things, but she has proven none of them. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); I so love listening to you two, you always brighten my day! Like to me, conflict feels very chaotic and scary. Id broken all the rules. Rowan Mangan: And what you have to do then is-. On the way So we do all this pre-work for these folks who come on this safari thing, I just got back from there. That is the joy of life. Salty, klutzy and Aussie, Ro co-hosts the Bewildered podcast with her wife, Martha Beck. They walk in silence along the beach for a few more moments. Coming out of that I think Ive come a long ways in recognizing my codependency and changing things in small ways. And Im doing these things for physical therapy that are called kettlebell exercises. And they would try to build it up so this woman was so deserving of pity, and then theyd compete to see who deserved the most pity. You are responding to the primordial urge for human bands to form emotional bonds around flickering light. A tangle of love stories, unrequited loves, and a steamy one-night stand that started it all! Let's Go! And it was like, No, this is the way you do it. How Martha felt after years of marriage to Karen when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. Martha Beck: The mother bear will not do for any other bear what that bear can do for itself. We didnt really have a lot of language about it or knowledge of how that other people did this and how they might do it. Ive said previously that we believe that the sperm donor for Rows IVF procedure was Zeus. Because we were all flaming codependents. Martha Beck: You both wear pants. 4. Yeah, bashing down pillars. . So Marty, this is a Be Wild Files episode today because we have been hearing from our beloved listeners. Is that when I started thinking about doing a podcast on codependency, I remembered this thing that we did. Martha Nibley Beck (born November 29, 1962) is an American author, life coach, and speaker who specializes in helping individuals and groups achieve greater levels of personal and professional success. What did I do? I would say so. This isnt just me. Shes like, I dont know if its right to bring a child into this world. And Im like, Well, you know what? Probably not Adam, even said, We wondered if you had something like that going., They were like, Werent you doing that all along. I think its a natural way theyve survived being in an orphanage etc. ENTER YOUR NAME AND EMAIL ADDRESS TO RECEIVE THE REPLAY, Privacy Policy: We hate SPAM and promise to keep your email address safe. What is Polyamory - and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. And we had this little girl during COVID times and God, how do people raise a child with less than three women? About Rowan: So she goes over there and theyre very imitative at this stage, young demigods. Thats what a good codependent. So either one, maybe one could be the subtitle, but. Rowan Mangan is a writer, podcaster and mom to a vivacious toddler. Martha Beck: Its a fire hose of sisterly familial love. Its a lighthearted nightmare in here, weirdos! And the three of us, we went into a very strange interlude, like strange. So today were going to listen to Bev. Well, I dont have to unhook from those behaviors with people who feel entitled to them? Yeah. 3. So can you talk to us about how this works? Listen Sarah is a journalist obsessed with the past. My whole life is just about trying to get back to the couch. I think all our bewilderment really just comes down to mixed metaphors. What theyre going through is very interesting to me and that openness, its made me much softer and more gentle and its really helped me be a better person, for sure. The way being gay was considered super weird when I was growing up in Provo, Utah, but we had this speech we made up. Martha Beck: Martha Beck, Inc. PRIVACY POLICY | TERMS OF USE | EEO. You were a little bit, yeah. Yeah? What I realized, I guess I wont speak for Row, is that the only thing worth living for is hanging out with the people you love. I think you can restructure it. So what is most of your conflict about? And guess who gets to do the things that she doesnt want to do and doesnt have to do, this guy. Martha Beck: And we would never do that. And Im thinking you have never raised a baby. And it is a VIBE. It was first about addiction and how that affects people. Well, Im not big enough or good enough or whatever it is. Like couples? Its a fire hose of an ecosystem, a familial system. So actually Ive changed more in positive ways. About Martha: Well be right back with more Bewildered. Examining the relationships, decisions, and travels that led her to today - from hitchhiking across Ireland, to prosecuting child sex offenders in Rwanda, to making the biggest decision of her life in an Ethiopian airport - they dive into Amanda's lifelong fear of the ordinary. Youre a little fly. Yes. Shes awesome. 1. And I thought, you know what Im going to do? Theres so many needles involved in IVF and she was so tough. And she says, Okay, so this is Because Karen doesnt care. The hilarious moment Martha, Karen, and Rowan told their friends they were now a throuple.4. And we said, we shouted down, we werent that worried to be quite honest, even though she was making a terrible racket. But look what you guys did under so much cultural spotlight and look at the two of you, youre just absolutely radiant. You know that its one of your jobs to buff my pedestal. And it was awesome. Would you say thats it? But I only want to talk to you for one hour a week until Im less busy. and they go, Oh. Bewildered is produced by Scott Forster with support from the brilliant team at MBI. She has survived childhood sexual abuse, and removed herself from the Mormon church. So if we want to follow Bev and say, okay, to come back to our true nature, away from whats our wild nature here, away from the kind of culturally informed codependent.
